U/C compared to R/C engine what makes them different?

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U/C compared to R/C engine what makes them different?

Postby iflyg450 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:33 pm

Besides the lack of throttle on one. What else is different? New to control line flying. Just wondering if my OS .25FX would be okay for circle flying with the throttle locked open.
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Postby Jim Thomerson » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:33 pm

No problem. Some flying stunt like what is callled a 4-2-4 run like the Fox stunt 35 will do. I flew a Tower 40 with a stunt venturi and no other modifications and was quite happy with it. Building another airplane for one as we speak. No 4-2-4, as a friend said, "It runs like a sewing machine". I like an engine to run the same speed regardless. Yours should do that.
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Postby chiefss » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:32 pm

I use R/C engines in C/L all the time. Just wire the throttle open. Most OS C/L engines are just their R/C engines with the throttle replaced by a fixed venturi and needle valve assembly.
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Postby loucrane » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:51 pm

Some manufacturers DID change a few things to convert their RC engines to CL. Best example I recall were the ~1980 OS FSR-S 40 and ?45.

Sliightly different shaft and sleeve timing, as I recall. Fine, out-of-the-box CL Stunt engines...
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Postby chiefss » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:51 pm

I just checked the parts listing for both engines. Except for the carb or venturi the parts are exactly the same for either the R/C version or the C/L version. Same piston and liners for the 40 or 45FSR. Same crankshafts. I have the complete parts listings for all engines OS made in that time frame. Got it when I lived in Sasebo, Japan.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:05 pm

You could even go as far as adding an extra line for throttle too.
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Postby chiefss » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:05 pm

I have no idea what that last post means.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:16 pm

You could add a third control line for rc engines and use that to control the throttle.
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Postby chiefss » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:39 pm

You could and I have. I still have a Roberts three line control handle and the bellcrank linkage for same. Haven't used them in years.

However, he didn't ask about using a throttled engine. He asked if he could lock the throttle wide open and run it as a C/L engine and the answer is yes.
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Postby loucrane » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:11 am

Chief, to yours of Tuesday re OS-FSR-S parts...

That is amazing! Of course, the venturii and spraybar were used , rather than the RC carb. ...possibly one added head gasket, too?

...And they did run more nicely for stunt in what we now call the fat-two mode rather than the 4/2/4. Flatter props to lighten load was the cure to the FSR series initial tendency to overheat and run away in solid and (too)strong 2-cycle.

Thanks.
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Postby chiefss » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:51 am

You stated that the crankshaft and sleeve timing were different in the FSR-S engines and they aren't. They all use the same parts. At least that's what the OS parts manuals says and I tend to believe that. That and I have both types of engines and and the only differences are the venturi or carburator. The choke area of the 4B and 4BK carbs is less than the straight venturi but that just affects the total output. If you interchange them both engines run the same as when the carb/venturi combination was reversed. I've tried that.

I run both my 40 and 45's on either a 10x6 or 11x6 and have never had an overheating problem.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:41 pm

I also happen to be getting into control line. I am building a PT-17 for a Cox Baby Bee. There is no one in our town that I know of that currently flies control line. I know where I could fly it but no one to teach me. Any suggestions on how to start off?
Thanks
Hunter
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Postby chiefss » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:48 pm

Carefully

By the way, it's a BABE BEE, not a Baby Bee.
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:29 am

chiefss wrote:Carefully

By the way, it's a BABE BEE, not a Baby Bee.


You can get started with better advice than "carefully".
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wt ... LXDVF3&P=7
This has been around for decades, and for $59.99, you can order two.
Using a .25 size to train on you will be able to keep up with the plane, and get used to turning around in circles. Those .049 are pretty twitchy in wind and use shorter control lines. I prefer the larger C/L models back when RC was too expensive on a kids budget and schools allowed you to fly without being fenced in.
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:31 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/COX-BABY-CLOWN-C-L- ... 286.c0.m14

Here's a bargain, and fits your "baby" bee. Next troll will be about glow fuel instead of nitro fuel...
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Postby chiefss » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:55 pm

Actually, for $59.95 you can order one plus shipping. A Flite Streak isn't the greatest C/L trainer made. They were actually used in combat early on before the combat wings came out. You definitely need someone to help you. If nothing else to launch it. Millions of us learned how to fly C/L on the old Cox PT-19. It was held together with rubber bands and flew apart if you crashed. It flew reasonably well. They show up on eBay all the time. Cox made zillions of them. I still two. My son learned to fly c/l on one of them.

Carefully is good advice. It includes finding someone to help you not only fly one but help to build it correctly and find all the right materials. Solid wing 1/2A's are a hoot to fly and if flown over grass hard to damage. If you can't learn on one of them you can't learn. They are also easy to repair. SIG made a Sky Ray and Goldberg made several solid wing kits. Swordsman18, Sportsman23, etc.

Babe Bee 049's are a dime a dozen. Cox made at least 20 million of them. They can be had for as little as 5 bucks on eBay. I have a fuel box full of them. The most mass produced model airplane glow engine ever made. Mecoa is making the GLOWplugs for them again.

Brodak sells all kinds of C/L stuff. Check out his website.
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:35 pm

chiefss wrote:Carefully

By the way, it's a BABE BEE, not a Baby Bee.


Stark contrast in replies! First one was short, unhelpful, left to the readers imagination what "carefully" means.
Second one was long, defensive, inaccurate, overly self serving, and presumptuous.

Amazing for a plane that wasn't very good, to be in production all of these years. I wonder what makes it succeed if it's not by popular demand?

One thing is for sure, it's more than difficult to find a CL forum to type on these days.
I never posted on a CLuniverse.com. Here are some I found with google where you can be served better:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/controllineflyingforum/

http://www.stunthangar.com/

Why not just stick with RC?
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:48 pm

Like Bruce said, you'll need help, a club is a great start, maybe one is near you.

http://www.stunthangar.com/club_links.htm
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:58 pm

chiefss wrote:You could and I have. I still have a Roberts three line control handle and the bellcrank linkage for same. Haven't used them in years.

However, he didn't ask about using a throttled engine. He asked if he could lock the throttle wide open and run it as a C/L engine and the answer is yes.


Don't worry, Bruce does this to everyone. Frank, how about you warn the guy finally?
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:07 pm

chiefss wrote:You stated that the crankshaft and sleeve timing were different in the FSR-S engines and they aren't. They all use the same parts. At least that's what the OS parts manuals says and I tend to believe that. That and I have both types of engines and and the only differences are the venturi or carburator. The choke area of the 4B and 4BK carbs is less than the straight venturi but that just affects the total output. If you interchange them both engines run the same as when the carb/venturi combination was reversed. I've tried that.

I run both my 40 and 45's on either a 10x6 or 11x6 and have never had an overheating problem.


Average temp in Washington is 57 if it's not raining 300 days a year.
http://www.cityrating.com/citytemperatu ... ty=Seattle
Arizona average temp is 103 in the summer. I can see why his overheated and yours didn't.
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:14 pm

chiefss wrote:...A Flite Streak isn't the greatest C/L trainer made.


In the instructions you can set up the plane for low elevator throw and naturally learn to fly with it.

http://www.brodak.com/shop_productdetai ... uctID=2518

Here is a .049 one, note the comment in the ad says

Description:
This is SIG's most popular control-line airplane of all time! Designed by 6-time National Champion Mike Gretz, the Skyray features ultra-simple all-Balsa construction and outstanding flight performance. It's an ideal first-time C/L trainer for the begin

spacebug.049 wrote:I also happen to be getting into control line. I am building a PT-17 for a Cox Baby Bee. There is no one in our town that I know of that currently flies control line. I know where I could fly it but no one to teach me. Any suggestions on how to start off?
Thanks
Hunter


I still prefer a built up wing than to a flat piece of wood or any other material for a wing. An airfoil greatly improves flight quality.
Last edited by 10%_nitro on Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:38 pm

Image

Note the helper uses an electric starter. For a beginner, you'll want one, especially with any .049 engine. The helper can hold the plane until you're ready to launch. He can also refuel for you, these have pretty small tanks.

When you fall down dizzy, auction off the goods, and stay/begin with RC.

Correct me if I'm wrong Bruce, (Like there's a choice?), isn't that a baby ringmaster he's flying? Ringmaster Jr? Probably Jr since it's about a .15 engine on it.

Photo copied from a thread on RCU by the way.
Last edited by 10%_nitro on Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 10%_nitro » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:44 pm

chiefss wrote:Got it when I lived in Sasebo, Japan.


Too easy, don't make me say it again Bruce. Please, leave ancient history on the shelf.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:29 am

I collect engines, mostly 049s, so I have a lot of experience running them and such. I just dont know ho w to start off flying them. I want to fly control line 1/2a. Is that Baby Clown a good one to start out on? The airfoil is for stunt and I am not sure if thats what would be good. There are clubs near me, one that I fly with, but there is no where to fly control line and no one still flies control line.
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Postby Jim Thomerson » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:38 am

I'd suggest getting a Sig Skyray kit and copying all the parts so you can make another one on your own or make parts to repair the one you have.

Balance the airplane no farther back than 1/4 in from the leading edge. Fix the elevator where you have about 1/8 in of up and 1/16 if down for first flight. Adjust the line so that the elevator is level when you are holding your arm level. The up line is the one at the top of the handle. When you fly, keep your arm and hand stiff and point your arm at where you want the airplane to go. Once you can happily fly a tank out level, start experimenting with moving your hand. Then increase the elevator travel.

The person launching the airplane should make sure the lines are tight and just release the airplane with the nose pointing slightly up. Maybe a gentle push, but no throwing.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:23 pm

I'll try that Skyray. What is the difference between all those kits? And how would I copy the parts on to another piece of balsa?
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Postby chiefss » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:15 pm

For all practical purposes they are about the same. Profile fuselage and solid balsa wing. Easy to build, easy to fly and easy to repair. They all were desighned around the Babe bee 049. Goldberg made millions of them as did SIG. I think SIG is still making the Skyray. I have a kit for one but will probably never use it. If you had a kit, you could trace all the parts and make another kit at a low price for a spare.

I do have the Flite Streak that Tower sells for 60 bucks. Nice airplane and well made. Only problem is it is easy to destroy it. One good whack into the ground and that's it. It also uses and expensive engine, at least 70 dollars for an OS 25LA-S C/L engine. Mine has an old OS 35-S on it and it zips right along. In my younger days I ran one with a Johnson 36BB. It went over 100mph. As a biginner you don't need that.

A little 1/2A is relatively inexpensive and hard to break beyond repair. Easy to repair if needed. Low cost too. You said you didn't have a lot of funds so the 1/2A is the way to go.

Here's a deal for you. I just checked my supplies and I have three Goldberg Stuntman 23's. I'll sell you one for 25 bucks plus shipping. I bought them when Sheldon went out of business two years ago.
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Postby Jim Thomerson » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:25 pm

Here is a link to some expert discussion of the Skyray. Some general information that is useful as well.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=13464.0

I've seen Skyrays fly, but have not flown one myself. I did have a Stuntman 23 which flew OK as best I remember.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:10 pm

So whats better, a Skyray or a Stuntman 23?
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Postby chiefss » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 pm

That's like asking which is better, a Lexus or an Acura. They are both about the same. They are C/L airplanes with a profile fuselage and a solid wing and are basically a rock on a string.
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