Super Atom097 help

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Super Atom097 help

Postby spacebug.049 » Tue May 25, 2010 2:58 pm

I just aquired a NIB Super Atom that is stuck up, but only slightly. I say slightly because the crankshast and sub-piston assembly can move but the piston and timer cant. It was one of the ones found in the warehouse so it included some instructions on how to free it up. I said to soak the whole engine, less tank and tubing, in leaded gasoline. As you all know we dont have leaded gasoline anymore so what do I do? Is there any difference in the gasoline that will create an undisired effect on the engine parts, especially the mag parts? I want to do as little as possible with this engine as to avoid damaging or marring anything.
Thanks.
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Postby loucrane » Tue May 25, 2010 4:49 pm

Surprised that the instructions mentioned "leaded" gasoline! So, soak it in the available unleaded...

I seem to remember that "white" (UN-leaded) gasoline was recommended for spark engine fuel. AMOCO had a lead-free gasoline, if I recall. "White" gas was available from other sources than gas stations, and for other uses. Not in the recent 50 years or so, however...

Never flew spark in its day, but have read a lot about it ever since. I have used glow fuels and Coleman camp stove based fuel. Glow fuels with 5% or so nitro and 25% - or a bit more - castor oil are very much less critical to needle and spark settings...

Unleaded pump gas - lowest octane you can find - just has to be better than the Coleman. It may mix with castor oil, but an SAE 60 or 70 single weight petroleum-based oil is more certain. Try Harley-D shops for a good 60 weight, or a specialty auto-, kart- or boat-racing shop might be able to get you some SAE 70, like Kendall NITRO 70. Gear lubes are not suitable

Glow fuels are based on methanol. There were problems when some spark engines were tried on glow plugs and glow fuel - the plastic tanks, that many sparkers came with, dissolved! I presume you understand that fuel tubing for glow fuels may not work with gasoline. (Diesel fuel, based on kerosene, makes silicone fuel line swell to more than double its diameter. Gasoline may do the same...)

Luck!
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Postby spacebug.049 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:25 pm

OK, got it freed up however there is one problem. The engine has NO compression. It is definately being caused by the piston valve assembly as you can see a small recession right on the seat of the sub-piston. If this engine is new, how can this be? It even has initials in the "Checked By" box. The coil that came with the engine is definately not new due to solder on the terminals. Could the engine also have been used? Can anyone advise me on what to do if there is a way to fix this? Thanks.
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atom

Postby max hansen » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:28 am

If it is not wore out then the inner piston/valve is not seating . You will probably need to tear it down & clean the seats & maybe lap them in some . These had a Mickey Mouse induction system . There is a snap ring inside the outer piston you need to remove to take apart. Good luck. Max H. :(
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Postby chiefss » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:12 pm

Mickey mouse induction system?? It was called piston port or piston valve. The idea was first used by Clayton Merry in the M&M line of engines. He also patented the idea and won won an infringement suit against Ray Arden.

It worked very well on small engines but the inertia of larger pistons didn't allow the valve to close fast enough. I have several M&M engines including the first piston valve engine of which there were nine made. You can see mine on page 148 of The American Model Engine Encyclopedia.
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atom

Postby max hansen » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:20 pm

One of the more modern ideas on the Atom was the ball & socket rod & piston connection .
Now to you Mr. Chief , maybe the M&M stood for Mickey Mouse? Maxie :lol:
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Postby chiefss » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:27 pm

Try Merry and Merz as in Clayton Merry and Frank Merz of the M&M Wheel Company of Seattle, Washington.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:47 pm

Arden got the patent for the atom. Number D115.974 to be exact. That included the piston valve, throttle valve, ball/socket joint, snap action timer, and all the rest of the engine. So M&M was not first, or they just didn't file for the patent. What is the date on the M&M?
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Postby chiefss » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:27 pm

Nope, Merry applied for and received the patent a year before Arden made the Atom. Merry received $2500 for the patent infringement. The engine shown in the Model Engine encylclopedia even has "Pat Pending" engraved on it. After the suit, Merry sold the patent because he came out with a better design and Arden bought it. Like I said, the piston valve only worked for smaller and slower turning engines because of intertial forces. RPM and size were limited using the piston valve. If you look at the later M&M 292, you will see how he modified the 292 by closing the piston valve and making an aluminum ring around the cylinder which housed the bypass ports and became the bypass.

Little note, My dad worked for Clayton Merry from 1938 to 1941 when Clayton had to go back east for the war effort. He was a machinist for Boeing. The little engine I have is the first of the piston valves and is serial number X-3. I also have the 292 both in the piston valve and the modified version. I also have a one of a kind 19 and a one of a kind 6 cylinder based on the 292 piston and cylinder. It was made expressly for my dad and is now on the original airplane in a museum in Morgan Hill, Ca. We knew where three of the engines were up to about 1985 when the original owners and friends of dad's died. Where they went is anyone's guess. We think the other were lost during the War. Right now I have the only known piston valve 19. If anyone else has one of the original nine I'd sure like to hear from them.

Merry was a good friend of my Grandfather who was a Physics professor at the University of Washington. He was on the bomb project during the War. Grandpa made the actuators for the radio control system for the plane from HO train motors. He also made the radio. We know today it would have not worked. The plane was displayed at the Seatlle Bon Marche in 1939. It is quite large with a 10.5 foot span.

I got the plane back in 1984 form a guy that had it in Seattle. I got the engine back about 6 years ago. Dad put it all back together and now it's in a museum.

I can't put pictures on this site. If anyone wants to see what these engines look like email me and I'll email you pictures.

Woody Bartelt has appraised the 6 cylinder at 5 to 10 thousand dollars. I was offered $3750 for the little 19 piston valve and the 292 piston valve.

Family heirlooms so I keep them. Actually if offered enough I'd sell.

Dad got his little 19 piston valve early in 1938 and flew it on a Zipper (I think it was a Zipper) in Yakima, WA and took first place. The engine was made in late '37 to early '38. They were given to 9 guys in the Seattle area. Dad knew all of them. The last one was on Bainbridge Island but the owner died years ago and his kids (my age) don't know where his went.
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Postby chiefss » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:43 pm

Another little note. If you check the Anderson's Blue Book you will see they note the lawsuit between Arden and Merry.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:49 pm

I'd keep the engines, maybe even donate them to the AMA museum. I'd also like to see them. My email is hstufflebeam@yahoo.com Also, do you know the patent no.? I like to look at that type of stuff. Thanks.
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Postby chiefss » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:58 pm

The AMA is the last place I'd give them to. I'll keep them unless I really need money (which I don't) or someone offers a ridiculous amount (which they won't). My kids don't have an interest in them so maybe I'll have then buried with me when I croak. Boeing wanted the airplane for their museum of flight which is an option. The plane and engine were made by Boeing employees.

The patent number was lost along with all the equipment during the war. They were going to try and start up the wheel business again but all the dies were lost or destroyed. Clayton went on the make his firtune by inventing the Merry Tiller. A small backyard type rototiller. Hade him a millionaire. Died in Leavenworth Washington a few years back.
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Postby chiefss » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:05 pm

Did I send you pics?? I got old and forget things. Forget my name occasionally
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Postby spacebug.049 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:47 pm

i don't think so. Have not checked my email in a while though.
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Postby spacebug.049 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:46 pm

Another question. Nothing is for sale but I was just wondering what you would be willing to pay for a NIB 1946 Super Atom. Just curious.
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Postby chiefss » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:55 pm

Not as much as it's probably worth. Might trade some stuff
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Postby spacebug.049 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:05 am

What is it worth then?
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Postby chiefss » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:10 pm

Somewhere in the $125-150 range depending on condition. Maybe more depending on year.
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