Fuel for spark motors.

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Fuel for spark motors.

Postby Smokin » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:23 am

Hi Can I use unleaded petrol with spark motors or what, as i'm new to this side of modeling. The oil may be so trouble as I have read the other wrigth ups. Thanks.
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Postby loucrane » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:07 pm

Smokin',

Preferably not. Unleaded auto gasoline (USA for petrol) has many additives - there as well, I'm pretty sure. We have a gasoline campstove fuel that works pretty well - Coleman. Don't know if it is also available in your area.

Spark engines also run well, likely more simply, too, on glow fuel. Of course, the heat content is much less, so the gasoline, er, petrol advantage in fuel economy is forfeit.

Surely there are auto or motorcycle racers in NZ? Good heavy oil -- in USA standards: SAE 70 (single weight) racing oil -- can be found with a bit of effort at shops that cater to the 4- and 2-wheel racing folks. Gear or axle lubricants of similar 'weight' are unsuitable, however.

Regret it's taken so long for anyone to respond...
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Spark Engines

Postby Smokin » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:49 am

Loucrane, Hi When you say a camp stove fuel is the white spirts or methelated spirts? as for the oil have come across some SAE 70 so we are on the way and what is the mix how much to what ?? Thanks.
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Fuel

Postby max hansen » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:25 pm

Not sure what your stove fuel is but we called it white gas up here.& the mix was 3 parts gas to one of oil . Should go ! MAX H.
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Fuel for Spark motors

Postby Ted Hatton » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:07 pm

Hi there ,
The New Zealand equivalent was sold as 'Shellite". Don't know if it is still around. Try calling Shell Oil Co. I use 2stroke Motor cycle oil for lube,
3 : 1 mix.
Regards Ted Hatton, Matakana N.Z.
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Postby viking61 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:39 am

Many are using alcohol and castor. I spoke with Sal Tabi and he said low octane unleaded also works good. I'll take his word cause he knows what hes talking about. 70 wt. oli is hard to get, but it is available. Seek and thou shall find. Yes Coleman's work, but this is not rocket science. Use what you can find and you will be ok. Inspite of all the change in gas it is basically still gas/petrol etc. now get some fuel and fly. Pip,pip and all that rot. Dan
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Postby chiefss » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:34 pm

White gasoline hasn't been made in years. It is basically unleaded gas and was what Model T's ran on. Their comp ratio was about 4 to 1 and unleaded low octane gasoline worked fine. Later when hi comp engines came out tetra ethyl lead was added as an octane booster hence the old saying, "fill her with ethyl". The only place you could get white gas was gas stations from an separate pump, usually in the lube room or off to the side of the station. It hasn't been sold since the late 60's. Coleman fuel is nothing more than Naptha which is what lighter fluid is. I worked in a Gas station in the late 60's early 70's and we couldn't get white gas anymore, The only people that bought it were modelers and campers.

There is nothing wrong with running an old ignition engine on regular unleaded gasoline. I run mine on it and the additives have no impact.

As an aside, since gasoline is now unleaded again Coleman says you can run there stuff on unleaded regular. I tried it and it works fine. The problem with leaded gasoline was breathing the lead after the gas was burned. However, Coleman fuel is safer and costs about the same as a 4 dollar gallon of gasoline.
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Postby Jim Kraft » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:42 pm

White gas was also the recomended fuel for lawn mowers and a host of other small engines in the 50's and 60's. I have been running Harley Davidson 60wt. motor oil, and it seems to work fine. 70wt. is getting really hard to find. I have a new Marvin Miller Anderson Spitfire, and in his instruction sheet, he recomends either 60 or 70 wt. I am thinking that since Harley's are air cooled engines that it should work pretty well in our model engines as well.
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Postby tégé » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:54 am

Hello,

I have a 0.049 sea fury. What kind of fuel must I use ?

Thank you

Every french response would be ok too !!!
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Postby chiefss » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:38 pm

Ordinary glow fuel. higher nitromethane, maybe 20 to 25% and 20% castor oil. Cox fuel would be fine if you can still find it.
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Postby tégé » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:23 pm

Thank you!
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Postby collie » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:41 pm

hi, ULP in new zealand is very similar to ulp in australia.just mix any good two stroke oil with ulp and you will have no worries..just came back from SAM champs in australia .there were all types of spark ign motors,madewells ,mccoys,ok 60,etc all running fine on ulp.methanol and 2 stroke oil also work well
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Spark Fuel

Postby loucrane » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:00 am

TO: Smokin, post #1 -

I seem to have overestimated the bad points of additives in pump unleaded. Several people are using it without problem.

The campstove fuel - Coleman's, locally - was identified (in here?) as largely naphtha, like lighter fuel. Gasoline works better than that.

The suggestions to use low nitro glow fuel are good, too. Alcohol is less fussy to mixture and spark settings than a gasoline-based fuel, and methanol has a helpful "chilling upon evaporation" character. ...Helps cool the engine...

The only downside to glow fuel is that alcohol has less potential heat energy than gasoline (or kerosene as used in diesel fuels), so you need to burn more of it than of a gasoline-based fuel. Larger tanks, or less time per tank...

Sorry I hadn't known these things when this thread started. Better to learn than not, eh?
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Postby chiefss » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:52 am

If you use alcohol based fuel in old ignition engines like the Ohlsson's do NOT use nitromethane. It will destroy the gasket between the cylinder and the crankcase. Since these two parts are welded together the engine will be for all purposes, ruined. I use Straight methanol and castor oil 2 or 3 to 1. Engine runs well and much cooler than gasoline.

Most clubs have pretty harsh rules about using gasolne. Have to carry a fire extinguisher and all that.
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Methanol fuel for old spark engines

Postby jprimrose » Mon May 11, 2009 11:10 am

If using methanol/castor mix - no nitromethane - will this also mess up plastic tanks, rubber fuel lines, and possibly weaken fibre insulating bits in the points assembly? I always had to put fuel proofer (still do) on planes that ran glow engines, regardless of nitro content?


btw; on the oil, I was told to use Klotz oil, 2:1 or 3:1 if the plug fouled. But this seems to be 50 weight. I play safe with using both Klotz and Harley SAE 60 oil 50:50 - seems to be OK so far. I have seen sae 70 oil advertized in motor bike shops for use in "worn out" V-twins, but I cant find the link!! :x
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Postby chiefss » Mon May 11, 2009 11:57 am

Alcohol will melt the plastic tank used on old ignition engines like the Ohlssons and other makers. zillions of collector items were damaged after 1947 when guys ran old engines on glow fuel. If you look at old Ardens, the tanks were changed after glow fuel came into use. The new tanks were black.

Woody Bartelt of Aero Electric makes a good living selling repro parts for old ignition engines. A big seller is plastic fuel tanks.

It doesn't seem to hurt anything else. However nitromethane will destroy the gasket between the cylinder and crankcase on Ohlssons.

If you use Nitrate Dope then you must use a fuel proofer. Butyrate dope doesn't need a fuel proofer.

I have an old Ohlsson 60 that I modified to use an OS4BK carb. I run methanol and castor oil 3 to 1 with good results. Unbelievable idle with the spark retarded. Less than 1000 with a 14x6 prop.
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